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If Obama were to take the courageous (2.00 / 3)

step of selecting a woman as his running mate, Hillary Clinton would be a far superior choice.


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 10:23:08 AM EST

Re: If Obama were to take the courageous (none / 0)

I'm not sure.  Sebelius has executive experience and is popular in a Red state.  If Obama intends to really change the map then she, or Schweitzer, makes sense.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 10:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

she won't take Kansas... (none / 0)

not at this point, at any rate. Still it is a good start!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 11:19:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither KS or MT will be in play (none / 0)

and there is scant evidence of a candidate being able to carry their home state as VP aginst prevailing political environment.  Edwards failed to carry NC.  Gore failed to carry TN even as Presidential candidate.  If Romney were McSame's VP no way would he carry MA and MI would be a stretch.  


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:54:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Neither KS or MT will be in play (none / 0)

Obama is already up five in Montana.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 03:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why does it matter? (none / 0)

Aren't we trying to be gender-blind in this?  Why is it "couragious" go hire a woman when it's perfectly clear that a woman could go the distance and that people largely don't care about it (as evidenced by the Democratic primary)?

You're welcome to debate the merits of Sebelius in comparison to Clinton, but you should open it up to Richardson, Clark, and all the other potential candidates, too.

The fact that we still consider gender to be an issue in the VP selection does not speak well of us.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 10:45:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you don't think that it would be courageous (none / 0)

for the first African American candidate from a major party to select a woman as his running mate then you are being naiive.  We might be trying to be gender-neutral, but the country is certainly not.

That is the political reality whether we like it or not.


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:56:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This year? (none / 0)

I'm pretty certain that we could nominate a potted plant as VP and our chances of beating the Republicans wouldn't change.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, this is America (none / 0)

And we elected the village idiot to another 4 years after seeing just how bad the first 4 were.  So let's not make it easier for them.


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:10:23 PM EST
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Fair point (none / 0)

I acknowledge that we can be pretty dumb on occasion.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither superior nor inferior. (none / 0)

Sebelius is a governor - Clinton a Senator.  Sebelius was an early advocate of Barack Obama's - Clinton was his opponent.  Sebelius has an executive type demeanor, Clinton a wonkish one.  And on and on.

People don't treat men this way: "well if you're going to pick Bayh, you may as well pick Clark" because recognizing them as individuals is automatic.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 11:37:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's contextual (none / 0)

As the first major party African American nominee, Obama has to view female candidates (and other minority candidates) differently.  In a perfect world this would not be the case.  But it's political reality.  

The more challenging choice for Obama would be "picking a woman", rather than a specific woman.  There is some risk in him picking a woman.

Among women candidates, Clinton would be a far superior choice to Sebelius.  If they were both men, Clinton would be a far superior choice.   Clinton has higher recognition levels, a proven donor list, foreign policy experience (beyond sniper fire in Tuzla), a signature issue (health care), and demonstrated grit and tenacity.    The fact that she wasn't an early advocate of Obama's will help party unity.  If Obama picks an early loyalist, he further shuts out the half of the party that didn't support him.  If he expands the tent by picking a Clinton supporter (including Clinton herself) or a clear neutral party, he helps the healing process.  As a woman who supported Obama early, Sebelius is especially unattractive and divisive as a choice.   There are a number of other women who backed Clinton or who remained neutral who would be better choices - if Obama had the courage (the audacity?) to go with a woman in the number 2 slot)


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

best argument I've heard (none / 0)

as you're right about the "woman" thing. There was an article about it, and you're right about Obama shutting out Hillary voters and supporters by picking a loyalist like Sebelius. Hillary is the only real choice.


by Lakrosse on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 05:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Clinton would be a far superior choice. (none / 0)

That POV can be argued much more effectively that the one which says Hillary is the only woman who can be chosen as Obama's VP.


by Beren on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama were to take the courageous (none / 0)

People who keep repeating this are unaware of the hostility that Hillary stirs up in the electorate.  One of many things going well for the Dems in this election s ambivalence among conservatives.  Hillary on the ticket would definitely be a motivator for those presently indifferent voters.


by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama were to take the courageous (2.00 / 1)

No one's unaware that conservatives don't like the Clintons. I just think this is overrated. When Bill was running in 96, I heard they wouldn't let her speak at the convention because her presence "riles up the base". Hillary spoke and Bill won easily anyway. In 00, i heard how she would ultimately lose the senate race because she "riles up the base." She won anyway and then they could't even find a decent challenger next time. I think the GOP is so disspirited right now that even Hillary hatred, which does exist, won't be near enough to save them.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama were to take the courageous (none / 0)

I just think what she adds to the ticket might be canceled out by what she might take away.  A wash.  


by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 02:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama were to take the courageous (none / 0)

I agree with you as far as electibility goes. But after the elections are over he has to work with her for the next 4 years and frankly hiillar is an alpha dog. She doesn't seem like she's ready for second fiddle right now.
Could be wrong but that's the way i see it.
Elections 2008 Best reality show ever!!!
by kbal on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 01:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]