Iowa, New Hampshire and National Polling: I was right

In June of this year I became increasingly frustrated by the political discussion in blogsphere.  It was all about the National Polls, and how Clinton could not be beaten.  This disappointed me - it was really no different than what you would read in the Washington Post or Time.  It also angered me, because in a way the national polling was being used as a weapon against dissent within the Democratic Party.  

But what really made me mad was that is completely wrong.  I have been involved in Democratic Politics for nearly 30 years, and the one thing I do know is that National Polls are meaningless before New Hampshire.  And yet these polls were being used to create the impression that resistance to Clinton was futile.

The point of the diary is not to say I told you so.  OK, so it isn't the ENTIRE point of this diary.  I am a strong believer that history can provide guidance about how primaries affect each other.  

Here is what history teaches about the current state of the race:  it is far from over.  After the diary about Iowa and New Hampshire, I wrote another diary about how New Hampshire changed National Polling.  On average, it found that when a front-runner loses New Hampshire, there is a 33-point swing in National Polling.  Since that time I have done more detailed analysis that shows when you include GOP contests since 1980, the average is 34.  

But the data also shows something else: This bounce is reversible.  In at least three instances (1984, 1992 and 1996) the bounce from New Hampshire substantially receded about 3 weeks after New Hampshire.  The reasons for this are complex, and I will write more about this tomorrow.  

But here is the key point I want to make: This race will not be over when Obama wins NH tomorrow.  The people who are writing that are the same people who told you this summer that Clinton had the race sewn up.  In short, this is another example of a press that does NOT UNDERSTAND THE PRIMARY PROCESS.

Back to my diary on Iowa and New Hampshire. Before I review the evidence, I would note that Mark Penn, the Clinton chief strategist, argued that there would be little or no bounce from Iowa to New Hampshire. He was wrong, and I was right.

I wrote the diary on Iowa and New Hampshire in June, entitled how Iowa effects New Hampshire.  the key part of that diary is this table, which summarizes the bounce from Iowa to New Hampshire.

How is my prediction fairing thus far?  The table below summarizes the results (I am using the realclearpolitics average for the post Iowa number, and the average of three polls taken right before Iowa - Zogby, ARG and Suffolk).

The net swing between Clinton and Obama right now is 16.46 (my model predicted a swing of 19).  Pretty Good.  BTW, in the June diary I predicted the following if Obama won, Edwards finished second, and Clinton finished third:
Obama 35, Clinton 30.7, Edwards 20.2.
The current realclearpolitics average is Obama 36.9, Clinton 29.1, Edwards 18.8

As I mentioned above, I have conducted additional research how National Polling is effected by Iowa.  The updated table, which I will discuss tomorrow, is below:

This table summarizes how various finishes impact National Polling

This table summarizes the impact depending on whether the front-runner won or lost New Hampshire

As I said, I will walk through the evidence tomorrow, but I find it interesting that the addition of GOP data did almost nothing to my model.  



Display:


You were right (2.00 / 2)

Excellent diary!  I look forward to tomorrow's follow-up.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:09:33 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire and National Polling:I was (2.00 / 1)

Your analysis is consistently interesting.  I'll be sure to read tomorrow's diary.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:12:42 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (1.00 / 1)

The GOP must be laughing their heads off - as Dems rally around another Dem who can't win the general.

The National Review, David Brooks, etc "support" Obama because the GOP WANTS TO RUN AGAINST HIM!

Dems are soooo easy.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:20:15 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Wow...I could have sworn that there were tons of indies voting for Obama in Iowa and NH...yeah...totally unelectable...


by mcdave on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

mcdave, you have to admit (none / 0)

there's a lot about Obama's record no one has ever heard of.

Most Iowans I talk to haven't even heard of things like the McClurkin fiasco, let alone any of Obama's legislative votes the GOP will make hay with.


See if Saxby Chambliss is helping you.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 06:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mcdave, you have to admit (none / 0)

Exactly!!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 06:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mcdave, you have to admit (none / 0)

The McClurkin thing couldn't possibly derail Obama in the general election. What, is the GOP going to use that against him? As for the primary all the damage that it's going to do has been done.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot about Obama that people don't know, and that there aren't lots of things for the Republicans to attack him on. That's just obvious. But if you're going to claim that Obama has a record that is easier for the Republicans to attack than Clinton's or Edwards' records, that's a very different and much more disputable point. And I don't think it's true. Clinton is the polarizing demon of the right, Edwards has that whole rich-hypocrite thing going against him, etc. Does Obama have a potential negative narrative that's worse than those? And do the others have positive narratives that exceed Obama's? The big concern a lot of people have is, obviously, race. But race could very well even be a net positive for him. I've said this all along, but I think it's simply not clear who is more electable than who--too much guessing and projecting, not enough real evidence.


by Korha on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mcdave, you have to admit (none / 0)

"Demoinesdem", I respected you until today.
Why are you guys so mean in your thinking? What do you want to know about Obama?
You didn't support him in the first place. Don't worry about him now. Suddenly, you "care" about him. This is exactly what we have to change in this country. Don't be jealous.
by win on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 11:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Funny how those of you who acuse us of "drinking the Kool-Aid" seem to have convinced yourselves of so much that has been proven wrong.

You guys didn't do too well in your analysis of Iowa and New Hampshire, so maybe you should try a little humility and reexamine your assumptions about the general election.


by upper left on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 06:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

The corporate media has given Obama a pass throughout the primary season.
But don't worry - the GOP will vet him.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 06:21:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Not all attacks stick.  Obama's authenticity and honesty are like a shield against the attacks that Team Hillary has tried to throw at him, and they will remain a shield for the general.  

If you do not realize that the Clintons have the toughest oppo research folks in the business, you haven't been paying attention.  If there where any large skeletons rolling around we would have heard about it.


by upper left on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

if you think obama has been through the gauntlet then I have to agree with Anne. However over the top she is- he's been through nothing. Please tell me you aren't this out of touch with what harsh campaign is going to look like?


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Of course the Repubs will try to slime Obama with a variety of distorted and opportunistic attacks.

My point is that it is unlikely that their are any new substantive skeletons that will pop out of the closet.  The Clinton team would likely have found them.

Obviously the Repugs will try new and innovative ways to damage Obama's brand. They will put even nastier spin on their attacks and they will engage in more, and meaner, whisper campaigns.  But Obama has shown me that he is one hell of a counterpuncher.

Obama is no Dukakis or even a Kerry.

Neither you or anne reponded to my point about what makes attacks "stick."


by upper left on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 08:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Because I find it irrelevant to the larger point about whether there will be some effective attacks that you list which ones will or will not work. You can't predict that. Neither can I. What we can know is whether a candidate is the chutzpah to weather them. That was  our mistake with kerry. We left him untested, and everyone, as will Obama, kept saying "wait til later- he'll show you.' He never did. Obama maybe different, but you are asking for faith on something of which his rhectoric shows the opposite.


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

The Clinton's have certainly thrown a few punches with more than a few below the belt.  Obama has  shown me that he does not have a glass jaw.

He may have gentle rhetoric, but he did cut his teeth in Chicago.  Obama has game.


by upper left on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

or, and I forgot to say this- to use  a violent metaphor- we want a candidate who can be about hope, b ut also about riping out the spines of the GOP when they attack and relishing it.


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

final point- many of the conversations about campaigns are often false. The question is to what extent can we find a candidate tho represents all of the necessary qualities of being a GE candidate and President. Our problems as Dems is that we like to come up with simple narratives every bit as much as the GOP likes to use them against us. A president must be both partisan and none- not either/or.


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

I think many confuse Obama's tactical efforts to expand the party as a sign of naivete or a lack of commitment to progressive values.  I don't read him that way.  I look at Obama's life choices and I see a consistent commitment to bottom up change and progressive values.  He is willing to compromise by he is clear about his values and goals.

I realize that you and many others have yur doubts on this score.  We will see.


by upper left on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire and National Polling:I was (none / 0)

Good diary.

Only one difference tho, these stupid compressed primaries.

My primary plan:

5 states per 10 primaries. Each divided by demographics and geography.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:21:06 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire and National Polling:I was (none / 0)

demographics - meaning to balance the demographics within each of the primaries so there was a better representation of We The People.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:23:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

fladem -- (2.00 / 1)

Since you're into polling -
John Edwards was leading ALL the SUSA state matchups through Sept.

THEN SUSA stopped including him in matchup polling!

Their list of clients provides a clue....

http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/who-d oes-surveyusa-poll-for

While there's much emphasis on voting machine "errors" - there's NO discussion about polls conducted by CORPORATIONS - that also control our government.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:25:04 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire and National Polling:I was (none / 0)

Way to go! It's amazing how consistently people misread polls. And (as a poll wonk) there's nothing I respect more than a sound, predictive mathematical model.

Polls tell a story, but they don't tell the whole story because they are a single frame in time. Only historical analysis (and understanding the candidates, their fundraising, their campaigning strategy, and the demographics of the key states) will tell you where the story is going.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 05:40:53 PM EST

Re: Iowa, New Hampshire (none / 0)

Theory-- Is this primary election going to look like 1968?

Over at Ezra Klein's blog- the question has been raised.

ie, 3 way race, all funded well enough, none of them planning to leave the race, each rep'ing different constituencies of the Dem coalition.

Brokered convention? AAs as king maker?


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:31:53 PM EST

For that to happen (none / 0)

Edwards has to get some forward momentum out of either NH (by beating Clinton) or Nevada.

It can happen.  But if you run the math on how delegates are allocated, it actually gets hard to see how even a three way race winds up with a brokered convention.  Historically brokered conventions are the product of regional candidates, which just isn't the case this year.


by fladem on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For that to happen (none / 0)

Even if he doesn't win then, i hope he gains enough traction. I would prefer the various factions of the party are forced to deal with each  other by actually listening for a change by having to negotiate rather than winner take all. but thats me.


by bruh21 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 07:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now I really want to see your post tomorrow (none / 0)

Maybe some bumps fade faster than others...


by souvarine on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:53:21 PM EST


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