Beyond The Pale- "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was Assassinated"

by nextgen, Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:04:37 PM EST

I have tried to remain respectful of Sen. Clinton during this process.  I have tried to understand how difficult it must be to get this close, only to come up short.  

No longer, Sen. Clinton has now gone too far to ever be rehabilitated in my eyes, ever.  

Hillary Clinton today brought up the assassination of Sen. Robert Kennedy while defending her decision to stay in the race against Barack Obama.

Here are her words

We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out

The context here is simply shocking, especially considering the numerous threats of Sen. Obama's life that have been received.
Obama, the first African-American to advance so far in the race for the White House, has faced threats, sources have said. Robert Kennedy, the younger brother of President John F. Kennedy, was gunned down in 1968 after winning the California primary. He had been a hero on the left for his civil rights agenda and calls to end the war in Vietnam. Barack Obama, who leads Clinton by nearly 200 delegates and has already secured a majority of pledged delegates, has been the subject of threats. Early in the campaign, the Secret Service gave him a security detail at the request of Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Illinois).

Excuse this however you choose, never before have I ever heard such a thing from a presidential candidate.  

I would write more, but I am speechless, utterly speechless and sad.

Perhaps I will write more later when I have had a chance to digest what she just said.  

Link: http://www.nypost.com/seven/05232008/new s/nationalnews/why_hill_wont_drop_out__b obby_kennedy_wa_112232.htm

Link to Video: http://www.breitbart.tv/html/101403.html


Tags: clinton, obama, kennedy, assassinated, nomination (all tags)

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Sigh (1.22 / 27)

You do realize that she also mentioned that her husband didn't gain the nomination until 1992? You selectively quoted this. She was making the case that anything can happen. So please peddle your outrage elsewhere, there's nothing to see here.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:08:17 PM EST

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 26)

There a a lot of ways to say anything can happen. This really is beyond the pale. I think this is the one that will cause SDs to move to end this farce.


by Becky G on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.06 / 16)

The most obvious being, "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN." You know, which is what she said. I think some people's obvious hatred of Clinton is getting to their head. She was making the case that anything can happen, and sometimes it does. What, we can't bring up events in the past now? Sen. Kennedy's assassination was an example of how things can change from one moment to the next. This is not an issue.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.88 / 26)

You are outrageous to not think that this is an awful thing to say when we have a black man running for president who has received numerous threats on his life and has had to have secret service far longer than anyone else.

This is serious and there is absolutely no way you can justify her saying this.  She could have said that Bill won the nomination in June and left it at that.

You are sick.


by sweet potato pie on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.00 / 19)

Troll rated for calling me sick. I'm talking about what she said, and the case she is trying to make. Obviously the hyper-sensitive will cling to this statement and turn it into a Clinton assault. I expected nothing else.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:16:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.93 / 15)

You are damn right I'm clinging to this comment as an African-American who has relatives who are scared to death of this very thing happening to Obama.

Go ahead and troll rate me because the fact that you cannot see what is wrong with your comment makes you a sick person in my mind.


by sweet potato pie on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you sound like you need a hug. (none / 0)

... sorry about the trollrating given, but it is warranted under the rules of the site (but you don't see me putting a similar one on, now do you? tee hee)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you sound like you need a hug. (2.00 / 1)

A) By any standard, Hillary's comments invoking assassination are, as the diarist states, "beyond the pale."  These are unbelievably reckless statements that need to be apologized for.

B) She needs to stop repeating the laughably misleading line that Bill didn't wrap things up until June.  (Why has no journalist called her out on how bogus this is?)  Bill had the nomination wrapped up in most people's minds on Super Tuesday. There was a brief resurgence for Jerry Brown after Super Tuesday, but that foundered quickly.  And Bill was left without any legitimate competitors after his win in New York in EARLY APRIL.  Early April, Hillary.  That's when all of Bill's competition faded away and ceded it to him.  Not mid-June.  Yes, he may not have had the math until then, but he was running essentially unopposed from early April onward.  And she knows that it is bogus when she asserts this.  But she does it anyway.

C) She needs to stop repeating the flat out lie that there is no historical precedent for people calling for an opposition candidate to drop out.  This is preposterous! And again, no journalist calls her out on it even though this statement is 180 degrees from the truth.  The fact of the matter is that in every non-incumbent race in Presidential political history, supporters of one candidate have called for an opponent to drop out.  I mean, we have to go ALLLLLLLL the way back to February when Hillary supporters were calling for Edwards to drop out.  Her assertions are just ridiculous.


by nocore on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Sweet potato pie, as my name suggests I am of Swedish ancestry and so white I shine in the dark. But I, too, have had that awful fear lurking in the back of my heart. It must also be something that Michelle Obama lives with every day, and I wonder how she manages to do it with such grace and strength.

That said, I don't believe Hillary meant that the way it has been perceived. She herself is the target of death threats every day. I wonder if you have ever visited any of the (thankfully small) blogs and other Web sites dedicated to hating her. The things said on those sites are frightening in their venom.

All presidential candidates (and Presidents) suffer such threats. I believe Obama and Clinton are both targeted harder than usual, though, and it frightens me.

There is enough hatred out there to go around and then some. Please, let's not add to it.


by Swedie on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:13:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dude, she said anything may happen (2.00 / 6)

Obama may be murdered just like RFK. Do you really want to defend that? It may well be a misspeak, but it is a bad misspeak.


by notedgeways on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 5)

Are you serious? Implying that Obama can be killed is not cool.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.00 / 1)

Um, maybe it's not cool, but it's true. So can Hillary. So can President Bush. What's the point?


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

The point is you don't talk about it.  You don't put the idea into the mind of someone crazy enough to do it.  You ever wonder why the number of school shooting have skyrocketed since Columbine? Disturbed individuals see the reaction of the media and the attention and think, "well I could do that".  

Ever since it looked like Obama would get the nomination I have been afraid that something like this would happen.  By invoking the RFK assassination she is baiting someone to do it.  You don't talk about it because you don't want to put it in the minds of the crazies as a possibility.  


by matchles on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

that is about as stupid as telling people not to talk about global climate change because it might upset someone. get a grip.


by zerosumgame on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

You have no idea what you are talking about.  If you did, you might have had a chance of providing an example that is somewhat relevant.  

Talk of something that is able to be copied (i.e. a school shooting) is comepletely different than talk of a global phenomenon.  Read a sociology text sometime.  


by matchles on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Ugh. This is like an Amy Poehler parody of Hillary Clinton. Of course, anything can happen. But that doesn't mean you bring up the most emotionally fraught possibility. Some things are best left unsaid. It's called tact.


by elrod on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

The difference is that she did not mean it about herself or Bush or "everyone running."  She meant it specifically about Obama.  As in, "He might be killed any day and then you'll all be glad I stayed in."


by ProgressiveDL on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 2)

I don't think there's anything you wouldn't be able to justify.  This statement is out of bounds, irresponsible and dangerously offensive.

I'd like to think it was beneath Sen. Clinton.  I'd like to think that.


by niksder on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Please don't speak as if you know me. I've never seen you or commented on your comments and you haven't commented to mine. So don't presume to tell me that I can justify anything. If people here are this sensitive, then that's all well and good, but it's kind of silly.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

you are sick to justify this. Who is your messiah now? Troll and sick!


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Maybe you're not sick, but you're amazingly insensitive. Let's hope karma does its job with you.


by denis diderot on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hyper-sensitive? (2.00 / 2)

you are wrong.  Your support of Hillary has blinded you.  If you can't see that bringing up assassination is beyond the pale and why this is one statement that Obama supporters cannot just brush off (their shoulders) then you are no different than many who came before you that blindly follow a leader making all kinds of excuses for the most inexcusable behavior.


by Destiny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

or she could have talked carter and kennedy (none / 0)

... maybe said that kennedy should have gotten the nomination, eh?


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:17:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Oh phooey. You don't think there are people out there with guns that would take a shot at Hillary too with all the hate generated against her? Give me a break!


by ellend818 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm Sure There Are, (none / 0)

but you don't hear Obama - or even McCain, for that matter - using that possibility as a rationale for continuing their candidacies. And since it's being talked about other places than MyDD, it isn't just a bunch of us "over-sensitive" Obama supporters who feel she crossed the line and left it WAY behind.


by RNinNC on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 2)

You know, It's a bad choice of words but I don't really care for the gotcha politics anyways so  I wont comment.  The problem I have is, stating that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN isn't a reason to stay in the race.  She could could suspend her campaign and if ANYTHING DID HAPPEN, then she would be the frontrunner to take the nomination.  Using RFK's assassination as an example isn't a good reason to stay in the race.


by reggie23 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:17:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agree. (2.00 / 1)

It's a bit unseemly to bring up the possibility of a tragedy that you would benefit from, but I'm not a member of the outrage brigades.  Her reasoning I found more annoying though.


by corph on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agree, Annoying and stupid (2.00 / 2)

Comments like this tell you that she's targeting low information voters. 1968 was the worst democratic campaign ever, culminating with a convention where democrats in Chicago stood and screamed at one another on the convention floor. If you want to draw a parallel you might want to compare with a campaign that was wildly successful, rather than a blunderous campaign that causes democrats to cringe at the mere mention of it.


by 79blondini on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure 23% of the population will agree with you.

And I'm sure your fellow hillbloggers will be up soon telling us how this is just another Obama hit job.


by ameridad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

23%?? (none / 0)

What are you counting?  The popular vote is very close, whether or not Clinton or Obama is leading is arguable from both sides.  But hey, keep alienating the other half of the democratic party.  What difference could it make?


by badu on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 23%?? (none / 0)

I believe the poster is referring to the approval rating of Bush, as in the completely delusioned population of America.  As in only a complete fool would not see this is a gaffe.  Which the poster is right, it was a real stupid thing to say.


by KLRinLA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

rec (none / 0)


by ameridad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:43:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 9)

What a lot of people are going to respond to the the emotional touchstone she invoked. especially in the same week that another Kennedy suffered a serious blow. Whether or not she intentionally intended it, invoking RFK's assassination even if it was part of a larger point was a serious misstep and she is going to eat crow about it, and having to do so at this point in the contest may just bury her completely.

I am willing to grant it may not be intentional, but it certainly has the effect of being tasteless and extremely bad form... "yeah anything can happen, my opponite may be murdered after all..."


by notedgeways on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

Alex, you are usually pretty reasonable.  But just for one second put the shoe on the other foot for this one and imagine what the reaction would be if someone who was even an associate of Obama's (or even just a random media figure) brought something like this up in reference to Clinton...


by Pragmatic Left on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Aside from being despicable, Clinton's statement is also just plain stupid.  It's a lousy analogy: Terrible tragedies can happen in many ways, at any time.  They're hardly a reason for a challenger to remain in a race.  1980 or 1984 might actually have been apt.

By Clinton's logic, she shouldn't concede before January, because something could happen to the nominee of either party.


by deminva on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Aside from being despicable, Clinton's statement is also just plain stupid.  It's a lousy analogy: Terrible tragedies can happen in many ways, at any time.  They're hardly a reason for a challenger to remain in a race.  1980 or 1984 might actually have been apt.

By Clinton's logic, she shouldn't concede before January, because something could happen to the nominee of either party.


by deminva on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.20 / 5)

Yes, there are lots of ways to say anything can happen.

Castigating someone for one phrase is ludicrous.  

For instance, you stated 'beyond the pale'.

Over at the orange sewer a year or so ago, I used that same phrase and was roundly castigagted as being anti semitic because it was phraseology utilized in the 1800's regarding where jews were allowed.

I wouldn't call you anti semitic because you usd it.

I wouldn't say Clinton was 'dogwhistiling' attempts on Obama's life to state a politically historical fact.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does anyone even remember where the Pale was? (none / 0)

Goddamn Polish Pride.

An lest you think I'm just addressing the Poles in my earlier statement, Damn Americans who think that just because we do it that way here, it's gotta be the best in the world, that we can never learn anything from somebody else.

/rant


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 3)

Castigating someone for one phrase is ludicrous.

Yeah, that would be like going around criticizing Obama because he used the words "bitter" and "cling" to inartfully express a commonly held viewpoint. Who would do that?

Oh, never mind. IOKIYHC.
by doktarr on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

As a point of information: Beyond the pale doesn't refer to Judaism and the Russian frontier, but instead to the portion of Ireland under English control in the middle ages.

cite: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beyond_the _pale

Opinion: If the assassination of Bobby Kennedy is the best reason HRC has left, she's running out of gas.


by skaiserbrown on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Way Worse than Huckabee (2.00 / 2)

twice in two weeks.

first Huckabee

now Clinton.

Shameful!

Shameful!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:55:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She just lost herself the VP. (2.00 / 1)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OVER A SINGLE COMMENT? (2.00 / 1)

Look, I am a Hillary supporter, and no I don't defend this comment.  But she has a lifetime of experience working for the Democratic Party, and for our causes.  Surely one comment can be forgiven, right?


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THat would tough (none / 0)

to pick a VP who had earlier cited the potential of your assasination for her benefit, dontcha think?


by KLRinLA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes I understand where you are coming from (none / 0)

I just can't believe Hillary meant it the way it sounded.  Be honest,  every single one of us has occasionally "stepped into it" and said something distasteful, and wished we could "eat our words." Lets all get a cooler head, and wait to hear what she has to say.  Lets get all the facts together before we all go crazy over this, deal??


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

However, a politician.... (none / 0)

.... must always be aware of how his or her words will sound.

"Bitter" and "clinging"?  Bad phrasing.

Citing the assassination of a Presidential candidate as a reason to stay in the race?  Bad choice of examples.

She's going to take a political drubbing on this one.  Unlike Obama's B/C comment, which was badly phrased, Hillary specifically chose the example of an assassination, which was (IMHO) one of three things:
  1)  an INCREDIBLY stupid thing to do
  2)  a subconscious slip (I do not believe that Hillary wants Obama killed, but our subconscious is rarely so polite)
  3)  a cunning plan to find a way to play the victim / picked on card

I, personally, pick choice #1.  But, trust me, even if she can pick her up from this incident, she'll know that she just ran into one heck of a pothole on the road to the Presidency.


by Vancouverite on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes you are right. Its sad (none / 0)


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, she probably did just mean that (none / 0)

in recent times the nomination wasn't decided until the summer months, but man she sure could've used a less of a lightening rod example, and she will get the tar and feathers which is fair, because that is what they do to candidates who slip up


by KLRinLA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:38:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OVER A SINGLE COMMENT? (none / 0)

Do you feel Mike Huckabee should be forgiven for his statement about Obama ducking a drawn gun at an NRA meeting? Because the two are equivalent in both commenting on the possibility of an assasination, and the damage done to a potential VP offer.


by skaiserbrown on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I just believe that Hillary has the tenacity to (none / 0)

make the changes that we want......like Universal Healthcare,  Energy reform,  bringing the jobs back home.  

And I do understand how her comment is hurtful to Obama supporters.  I wont even try to pitch you a load of BS trying to defend it.  

But just like with all of these "shocking media moments"  like "flag pins, Rev Wright,  Geraldine Ferraro"  I hope we can focus on what is best for this country, and not get sidetracked by comments that are blurted out by the candidates.  


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

This is getting effing ridiculous. She made the same g-d damn quote in March, and was obviously referencing the time aspect. The media is disgusting. At this rate, Ill tune it out till November when I decide who to vote for.


by NJDEM1 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Granted (2.00 / 11)

Her Husband didn't win the nod in June 1992 by overtaking Jerry Brown. Bill Clinton was the frontrunner from what I can tell, and he finished it by beating Brown in California.

So the only person who can really be compared to Bill winning it in June is Obama.

And the RFK comments are probably the most blatant gaffe of anything so far. Good lord, this is getting a bit sad.

I have nothing against going to June 3rd, but this is getting a bit embarassing for Clinton.


by RBH on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Granted (2.00 / 6)

On April 8th of 1992 a full two months before he would secure enough delegates to claim the nomination Bill's staff was calling him the presumptive nominee:

[Apr 8, 1992] Clinton's showing yesterday convinced many Democrats that, even with the depth of concern about his character and his ability to win in November within his own party, his nomination is now all but assured. "Bill Clinton is the presumptive nominee," declared Mark Mellman


by venician on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Granted (2.00 / 1)

This deserves to be posted every time the "my husband won in June" talking point gets trotted out.  And may even deserve a diary of its own.


by Pragmatic Left on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Granted (none / 0)

This was originally quoted by Tatan, he deserves the credit.


by venician on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Granted (none / 0)

So what?  Obama's staff has been calling him the presumptive nominee since Super Tuesday.  Your very own comment notes he did not clinch the nomination until June.


by dhonig on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Granted (none / 0)

Citation please. I think you might be hard pressed to find one.


by skaiserbrown on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:10:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are lying (none / 0)

plain and simple you are lying.  If you can give me any Obama staff saying he is the presumptive nominee on Super Tuesday I'll eat my fucking hat.


by ThisPlaceIsCrazy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.93 / 16)

I linked the original content because I expected comments like yours.  

There is nothing that warrants what she said, she knows his security and the threats on his life caused the secret service to protect him earlier than any candidate in history.  

I'm sickened by her comments, which may have been a mistake and even more by anyone would defend such words.  


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.00 / 10)

Good on ya. These comments are not 'sick' except to those who are hyper-sensitive Clinton bashers. Of which I'm sure this diary will be like a magnet ...


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

You sir must have the sensitivity of a block of stone or shit or some such inanimate object.

How can you defend Clinton on this! She pretty much is asking some nut nob to have a go at him!

She is the opposing candidate reminding insane idiots that this is her last hope, the death of her opponent.

I am outraged that she said this and I am outraged that you can defend her on it. What is there left for her to say? Nothing


by telfishbackagain on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Maybe we should wait to hear from the Kennedy's on this?  I'm much too young to remember RFK or JFK... this is only my first Presidential election to vote in... but I'd still say that maybe the timing wasn't so great.  And that's being extremely generous.  I mean, why say it when people are going to have an opinion on something like that?

In any event, I think Hillary just obliterated any chance she had of securing the VP.


by Chelseain32 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

VAAlex,

You TR'd my comment, you do realize it's against the TOS here to troll rate post just because you disagree right?


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

No I troll-rated you because you called me sick.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's fine. (none / 0)

I don't believe your sick either.  But it would be great for consistency if you could avoid asking we Obama supporters if we are "really so hateful".  That's no better.


by corph on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

uprated to counter the baseless TR more than anything else, even though I agree with you


by notedgeways on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

You do realize he called me sick right?


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Maybe I read it wrong, but I think he called Clinton's comments sick.  I'm uprating it.


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No he didn't (2.00 / 1)

What he said was I'm sickened by her comments ... and even more by anyone would defend such words.

Observe, he is saying that he is sickened by you.  While that is harsh, there is no valid interpretation of the English language that would twist that around into him saying you are "sick" or any permutation thereof.  He is clearly calling himself sick.


by localroger on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

There is a difference between calling a person "sick" and calling a person's comments "sick".  I do believe the comment was directed at Hillary's comments but even if it was directed at you, it wasn't about you as a person.

I could say you have made some pretty stupid comments, and reading the discussion on this board so far I think it would be true.  But my saying that doesn't mean I think YOU are stupid.  There is nothing ad hominem in either of our comments.  


by matchles on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.90 / 11)

You do realize that she also mentioned that her husband didn't gain the nomination until 1992?

And had she stopped there, she wouldn't have made herself into a contemptible grotesque.

Had she voted against Bush's war, she'd be the nominee.

Had she not hired Mark "Dick Morris, Jr" Penn, she might be the nominee.

I realize counterfactuals are the only thing she has left, but this is going too far. She ought to be ashamed of herself (now there's a counterfactual), as should anyone who would defend this.


by BlueinColorado on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 7)

I don't think the fact that she said 2 things somehow changes the fact that one was horrible.  


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh yeah. That Obama might be assassinated (2.00 / 2)

is not making that case. It's offensive. "Anything can happen" is not an argument to continue a campaign since if "anything happened" the Democratic Party would be free to choose her in Denver.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what was her point in mentioning (2.00 / 6)

the RFK assassination?

If she doesn't have the good judgment to avoid saying things that are highly offensive, won't this be a potential massive liability in November? Or does she know she's being offensive but she wants to be offensive?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just admit that it was a bad choice (2.00 / 5)

C'mon, Alex, surely you can see that it's a bit of a poor choice of words to imply that her opponent could be killed by referencing Bobby Kennedy in a week where his little brother discovered he has brain cancer... right?  With regards to a candidate that said little brother has effectively coronated as the continuation of his family's life's work, no less.

It was insensitive at the very least.

Clinton could suspend her candidacy without totally dropping out and basically make the same statement without saying a word.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:29:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just admit that it was a bad choice (none / 0)

Maybe it wasn't the best example, but it certainly wasn't 'sick' or some of the other outrageous things that some are calling her, and even resorting to calling me. Give me a break. By the way you'll notice the cast of characters who is downrating me simply because I dare make the case that she was speaking generally: all Obama supporters.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not going to defend the downrating... (none / 0)

...but I also think that it's a natural response to defending this sort of behavior in a candidate for president.

Both sides misuse rating powers and I wish they didn't exist at all, quite frankly.  We as a culture can't be trusted to use them properly.

That said, you chose a difficult road for yourself when you defended Clinton on this one.  I understand wanting to stick up for your candidate, but there are certain instances where you just have to let them defend themselves.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:45:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just admit that it was a bad choice (none / 0)

OTOH, I don't see Clinton supporters jumping in on this at all. I think most people realize she has really done it this time.


by Becky G on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (2.00 / 1)

I uprated one of your comments because I think everyone should be able to see the awful things you're saying. I don't normally try to salvage trash, even if I think the HR was unjustified, but I made an exception for your comment. People aren't downrating you because of politics, they're downrating you out of common decency.


by Mobar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:51:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

I'm done responding on this thread since obviously everyone is totally abusing the TR priviledges. It's not common decency, TR is not supposed to be used if you disagree. it's really disgusting that all of you are TRing me for simply stating the obvious. I used to think most people on here were reasonable but this latest episode is really causing me to rethink some of that.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

I'm done responding on this thread since obviously everyone is totally abusing the TR priviledges. It's not common decency, TR is not supposed to be used if you disagree. it's really disgusting that all of you are TRing me for simply stating the obvious. I used to think most people on here were reasonable but this latest episode is really causing me to rethink some of that.

And give me a break -- TRASH?! Seriously? Shame on you for resorting to a baseless personal attack simply because you didn't like what I was saying.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (1.33 / 3)

Others HR'd you. I'm not going to mojo your comment, but I gave it a 1 to help it get unhidden. That's my understanding of how these things work.

A baseless personal attack would be calling you a wife-beater, since it's obviously a personal attack and I don't know your gender, marital status or have any reason to believe that you beat anyone.

A personal attack would be calling you an idiot because you can't comprehend that calling your comment "trash" is not calling you trash. But that wouldn't be baseless. Understand?


by Mobar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

Yet you continue to insult me. Again.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just admit that it was a bad choice (none / 0)

Alex, lets visit hypothetical land and say the roles were reversed and Obama said something like Monica's stained dress came out in June.

Don't you think you might call that a sick comment? I know I would.


by Statsman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 4)

This person is temperamentally unfit to be President.  Seems like she's giving the supers every reason she can to end it now.


by Deadalus on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:30:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The husband thing wasn't controversial (2.00 / 3)

the RFK assassination thing was.  It's sort of like taking clips of a particular sermon and not the whole thing, because that's where the controversy lies.

And Bill's June 1992 victory didn't provide context either.  It's certainly true that an Obama scandal or incapacitation could happen, but it's not a reason to keep campaigning.  If god forbid that were to happen, she could always jump back in the race after suspending her campaign.

So, poor reasoning and invoking the possibility of a horrible trajedy that she would benefit from.  Not the best answer I've heard.


by corph on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, Hell no. (2.00 / 4)

Don't try to sweep this under.  This was plain as daylight.  Good grief, I'm still in shock that this would come out of her mouth.

Translation:  "I'm staying in this thing just in case someone decides to take out the black guy."

Maybe she's thinking that after all that cheap beer she drank and all that bowling she did with those commoners one of them might like her enough to move her from second place to first.

Ugh.  I can't bring myself to believe that's what she meant but girlfriend had better come out with an explanation for this shit, and fast.


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Hell no. (2.00 / 1)

Didn't someone else comment about this during a NRA meeting last week.  

Once, twice...  

Trend?


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn. (none / 0)

I'm thinking we need a fund raiser to buy Barry a 'Pope Mobile' or something.  


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Hell no. (none / 0)

she might as well order the hit herself. would be in character at the rate she's going.


by Metrobot on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

It's another media hit job on Clinton.  

They're ripping her quotes about campaigns lasting through June out of context.

They're disgusting pigs.


by bellarose on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 3)

Why don't you watch the fucking video before you claim it was "out of context"?


by marley on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 3)

Good old VAAlex.  If you look up the definition of partisan, that guy is it!

These comments are deplorable.  

Period.


Change is coming soon.
by jv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill Clinton June 1992 argument is bogus (2.00 / 1)

Hillary Clinton has continued to argue for her staying in this race based on the statement that her husband didn't win the dem nomination until June in 1992. While technically true (he didn't pass the delegate threshold) he did sew up the nomination months earlier.  According to Jake Tapper:

In his efforts to solicit patience from voters and Democratic officials alike, former president Bill Clinton constantly tells voters that the 1992 nomination race kept going until June.

   "All these people that tell you, 'Aw we oughta shut this thing down now the Democrats are so divided - that's a bunch of bull," he said today in  Kannapolis, North Carolina. "I didn't get enough votes to be nominated until June the 2nd, 1992."

   That is literally true. Bill Clinton did not secure enough delegates through the primary and caucus process until the California primary, June 2, 1992.

   But it is not politically true.

   Bill Clinton had sewn up the nomination long before then. Months before then.

Tapper also goes on to point out the contest started a month later than it did this year.

See article here: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/03/q-did-the-1992.html


by batgirl71 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh, well if she didn't think she was wrong (2.00 / 1)

in making that remark then explain why she just apologized on tv. I call BS on her even making the remark. You would have me think it's all innocent but as we have seen she is the ultimate calculating politico. She apologized to the effect of saying sorry if anyone took it wrong. You can defend that crap until your eyes fall out but if Obama had said anything remotely that stupid you all would be all over him.

Some lines just don't get crossed. There were far many more examples she could have used to justify her staying in the race.


by Bastet on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (1.00 / 2)

VAAlex,

I respect your opinions, but this is truly unconscionable.  Sorry, she's completely dead to me after this.


by The Distillery on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

This is one of the first times that anything a politico has said has literally made me sick to my stomach.

Before this, I entertained the notion of an Obama/Clinton ticket as a way to salvage party unity.

NO MORE.  These statements are inexcusable.  I was not even alive when RFK was assassinated, yet I still tear up every time I watch a documentary and the footage is shown.  He was one of the greatest progressive leaders of our time, and to use his assassination to justify one's political aspirations are reprehensible to say the least, especially the week that Teddy Kennedy is diagnosed with a brain tumor.  Especially when she sits in the same seat Sen. Kennedy held when he was assassinated.  Especially when his son and namesake has been one of her most ardent supporters.

Robert F. Kennedy has been one of my political heroes since I first became interested in politics.  I am literally sickened and angered to a near-boiling point that his assassination has been used to score political points.  This is one of the must disgusting, disdainful, and disrespectful things I have ever seen in a campaign.


by doschi on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

She could have left it at her husband.  It's that simple.


by Brad G on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

she wasn't saying anything can happen, she was simply saying that the primary campaign was still going on in June.


by Todd Beeton on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Right. She was making the case that "anything can happen, including assassination."

Sorry, but this just proved, as if we still needed any proof, that Hillary is in it for Hillary... she cares about NOTHING else.


by ratmach on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

So your defense is that she won't suspend her campaign because she wants to be in the best position to capitalize on an assassination should one take place?  That's hardly going to cut it, Alex.  At best, she doesn't understand that you don't have to still be running to replace an assassinated candidate on the ticket.


by Jay R on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

there are a hundred different ways she could have mentioned Bobby Kennedy that DIDN'T use the word "assasination".

"We all remember Bobby Kennedy was still campaigning in California in June".

It wasn't that she mentioned Bobby Kenney that is the problem, is that she mentioned his ASSASINATION that is.  That was the offensive word.

You can't argue that Clinton is one of the single most accomplished and articulate politicians in this country (which I am willing to conceed she is) and argue at the same time this was just a harmless little gaffe.

She has been in politics for a long time and I can't understand how she could think this comment would go over well with anyone.


by DawnG on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:03:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't care what the %^&* case she was making (none / 0)

She basically said hey, things happen, people even get assassinated. And her argument is lame anyway. Sure Bill went to June, but the primary season didn't start right after Christmas, and waiting for California isn't the same as waiting for Montana.

She referenced assassination as a reason things could go longer for heaven's sake! What's it going to take! This needs to end. Now. If she doesn't withdraw the supers must end it. This week.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sick Sick Sick (2.00 / 12)

This comes as June 6th marks the 40th Anniversery of RFK's death.


by RandyMI on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:08:52 PM EST

Re: Sick Sick Sick (none / 0)

Yep... and just days after another Kennedy son gets diagnosed with what's sadly likely to be a mortal brain tumor.

Really bad timing - not that there's any such thing as "good" timing for a completely inappropriate comment like this.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Absolutely Sick (2.00 / 11)

Great argument, Clinton. I'm sure the superdelegates will love this one.


by chicagovigilante on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:17 PM EST

Re: Absolutely Sick (none / 0)

In my WORST NIGHTMARES I think Hillary has been saying to superdelegates two things:

1. Americans won't vote for a black candidate
2. He will be assassinated.

I never believed this nightmare was true. But now I have my doubts. So many baby boomer democrats are deformed by the political violence of the 60s/70s. Their world view is coloured by All the President's Men, The Parallax View, and the Zapruder Curve.

Bizarrely, and unfortunately, this paranoid conspiracy infects many of my african american friends. They are terrified for Obama, and believe he will be killed.

To those in power I say:

Feeding fear makes you a fear monger. And acquiescing in the racism of others, is tantamount to being a passive racist


by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Something is really wrong here... (2.00 / 16)

"Hillary Clinton today brought up the assassination of Sen. Robert Kennedy while defending her decision to stay in the race against Barack Obama.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out."

She has forgotten who she is and what she stood for I think.


by mady on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:58 PM EST

Re: Something is really wrong here... (1.80 / 5)

Sometimes I wonder if we ever really knew who she is and what she stood for. Every day that passes has me questioning the past more and more.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How long till someone defends this? (2.00 / 8)


by bobdoleisevil on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:10:14 PM EST

Re: How long till someone defends this? (2.00 / 9)

See the first post in this diary.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, then, will Alegre defend this in her diary (2.00 / 2)

tonight? Or will she ignore it? Or will she sort of do a backhanded thing where she blames the Obama campaign for it.


by bobdoleisevil on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is nothing wrong with what she said. It'... (1.00 / 2)

factually true.  And I'm sooooo sick of the sensitivities of those Kennedys.  When Obama lover Maria Shriver was cheering for her Bush loving husband, were you outraged at that?


by handsomegent on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah...no big deal. (none / 0)

Those sensitive Kennedys.  What do they have to be upset about, right?  It's just a casual reference to the assassination of Bobby in the week that Ted gets diagnosed, and its just a hint that a  Black president could likely get killed.  No big deal.  Just race baiting, voter suppression, and unbelievable insensitivity.  No big deal.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You'reading far too much into it dear. (none / 0)


by handsomegent on Fri May 23, 2008 at