Nobody wants a draft, because nobody who makes or enforces laws or policy wants their children to be put in harm's way.

I know I don't want to get drafted to fight a war I don't believe in.

Self interest, plain and simple.

I agree that the lack of a draft has probably contributed to our willingness to stay in Iraq and our involvement in various other internatioanl conflicts.  It's easy to be for military aggression when a person doesn't have anything on the line.  It's possible that having a draft would actually save lives.

If there were a draft, you would see troop pullouts start tomorrow.

I have supported a draft for years.  I still support it, but I'm going to stop supporting it on February 16, 2010--the date I turn 26.  I'm not about to support a draft that doesn't potentially include me in it; I'd be no better than the current crop of chicken-shit chickenhawks heading up our government right now.

But I'd still fully support someone in the 18-25 age range supporting it.  It just would no longer be my place because I have nothing personally to lose.

Hopefully this is an academic discussion on my part, because we'll have almost all of our troops home by February of 2010.

I do support a Draft because no one should be forced to fight for something they do not believe in.

And I fully support a required national draft.

I think Obama is making baby steps by tying college assistance to civil service.

AA do not in general enlist more than whites.

there is a cultural/poverty connection, but it happens more in rural areas.

if we didn't have a "volunteer" military, we never would have gotten in to this mess in the first place.  i don't believe that a country should be able to make a decision about, oh i don't know, killing hundreds of thousands of iraqis, without that being tied to the potential for an intensely personal sacrafice of their own.  if a war isn't worth your own life or the life of someone you care about, it isn't worth a single life.

I guarantee that if we had a draft americans would have never fallen for the "saddam = 9/11" crap, and they would have educated themselves about the geographic, political, and religious history of the region. if there had been a draft and bush and cheney had even tried to pull this crap, i guarantee that bush would not be president right now.

instead we were all asked to fulfill our patriotic duty by shopping.  the result is that the candidate for president that polls as "most trusted on the issues of iraq and national security" doesn't care to even pretend he knows the difference between suni and shia, and the public and the media don't know/don't care to call him on it.  it's f-ing shameful!

i am older than 26 now, but i was 22 and in college when this whole mess began.

The deterrent effect of a draft never occurred to me. In fact, you could make the case that a draft would produce a huge left shift in the country.

You know the saying: A Conservative is a Liberal who's been mugged, a Liberal is a Conservative who's been arrested.

Put people's self-interest on the line, and see if they keep voting in hawks.

Most people do not support the military draft. Conservatives use to be the most supportive of the military draft, but not any more.

Actually, what little support the draft has comes from a minority of progressives. From their point of view, the burdens of war should be shared by all segments of society. In their view, the rich can buy their way out of war. I don't agree with this philosophy because those who are enthusiastic about being in the military will serve best, while those who don't want to be there will just drag the rest of the military down. The only time I'd be for a draft is if the United States has no choice but to fight a World War.

I support a national draft for both genders.  Two or three years of compulsory service--with no buy-outs or college exceptions for the wealthy--would do a lot to keep the American electorate involved in our foreign policy.  I think it's a no-brainer, and also guaranteed never to happen.  Can you see the Congresscowards voting for it?

if we had a draft we would definitely have a shitstorm on our hands; but I dont believe in the draft in the first place, I think I should have some choice as to whether or not I want to "kill or be killed." [i dont think I could survive in the military anyways. i have authority issues;] I dont get to choose whether or not we go to war in the first place, politicians with agendas do-  

[call it self preservation;]

I might support a draft if it was all out war, like WWII or something;

Absolutely not.

For one thing, I find the concept of putting other people's life at risk for political gain despicable.  It's no better than what Bush, Cheney, etc. did with Iraq.

Second, I see it backfiring.  For one thing, military people tend to be more conservative and more Republican.  Part of it is self-selection probably.  However, it risks making more Republicans.

Third, relatedly, I worry that more people would be silent or reluctant to oppose the war if they have family or friends involved (or KIA or injured) because they feel it would be tantamout to opposing their loved ones.

Fourth, this is a great way to alienate young people.

If you're going to draft someone, draft the people who still support and profit from the war.  All the way to Bush himself.

Richard Clarke has looked at the issue of a draft in his book "Your Government Failed You."  Turns out that the military does not want a constant draft.  The idea of a volunteer army was created after Vietnam as a means of insuring the support of the American people for any future war.

It was thought that if a President had to call up the National Guard and the Reserves, the impact would hit every city and town in the country and the people would only allow their family members and neighbors to fight a war if it had merit.  This worked as planned in the first Gulf War.  Americans supported this effort to run Hussein out of Kuwait, yellow ribbons appeared in every front yard and the military had the full support of the people.

The current administration got around this by calling up small units and individuals instead of the entire Guard or Reserve, until they had all of the men they wanted without a national discussion of the war in Iraq.  (They also used other methods to blur the line between the war in Afghanistan and the one in Iraq, but since this diary is specifically about the draft those might best be left for later.)

I like the idea of a small all volunteer army during peacetime with a backup of National Guard and Reserve for war.  With the proviso that the members of both know exactly what they are signing up for and that terms of active duty are clearly defined (no more back door draft). I further believe that all Americans should receive college education in exchange for public service, including both military and community service.

coming to terms with your quote:

The voluntary army has offered better opportunities to  African Americans than American society as a whole

Mainly because the military is targeting low income AA and Hispanic communities with recruitment by offering mediocre payment/schooling options and not enough mental health benefits, long term health benefits (walter reid), or options in transferring benefits to the spouse of the recruited soldier (among other things).

I dont see it as offering better opportunities, but preying on the lack of opportunities found in lower income AA and hispanic communities.

I support a draft in the sense that it is the only way to sensibly pursue Bush/McCain strategies in the long term.  That is the only way that this operational pace is sustainable without breaking our military.  If by some nightmare he becomes president, he should call for a draft.  Its the only "responsible" thing to do.  McCain should put his money where his mouth is.  McCain will fight two wars, cut taxes, and balance the budget by the end of his first term.  Good luck there Mac.

    should NEVER be used unless this country is attacked, as it was in WWII with Pearl Harbor. You do not force American citizens to fight wars for any other circumstance. that's why the draft during Vietnam was so appalling, and that's why it would be equally appalling now.

  A draft should NEVER, EVER, EVER be used for any reason EXCEPT to defend the homeland. WWII, the draft was necessary. Today, it isn't. A volunteer army is one of the best symbols of democracy. Elsewhere around the world, even in places like Israel, young men HAVE TO JOIN the military. Here, we don't.

  That's why progressives don't support a draft.

Simply conveying the opinions of my soldier son, I wouldn't support a draft because it weakens the military.  Those who serve should be there because they choose to serve.

On the other hand, my head bursts into flames everytime I see the billboard outside the Detroit National Guard recruitment center that perpetually reads -- "Need $15,000?  Talk to us!"
Like, who in the hell in Detroit DOESN'T need $15,000?

And I remember all the stories I've heard of Detroiters being squeezed to desperation by the judicial system or the burdens of a sick loved one and imagine any of them turning down a cool $15,000 bucks during the worst of their troubles.

Then I remember the part where for at least five f-ing years the wars have been off the average Joe's radar because he or she wasn't serving, probably didn't know anyone in the service, didn't feel threatened by a draft and wasn't paying for the damn mess in higher taxes or through sacrifice of any kind -- the Bushking was quite clever in that regard.

Over the past year I've seen a shift however --- more and more regular folks know someone who's served and the deficit has sunk the economy into the crapper.  What do you know, people are starting to give a damn.

I support mandatory national service be it military or other.

I think a mandatory draft would be a grand idea for two reasons. First, shared responsibility for the defense of our country. We shouldn't be allowed to buy another's life in defense of our own. A draft should exclude only those who have a medical exception that would literally render them a hazzard during wartime. In other words, no flat feet exceptions. No `I'm too busy educating myself to be really valuable to society', exceptions. Too many people feel that the defense of our country is an option, or worse, that it's not worth defending, or that smart diplomacy would render the military unnecessary, and obsolete. Not realistic. Some progressives are libertarian in sheeps clothing.

Second, the numbers. If Sadamn Hussein had reconstituted his WMD program, it would have been a necessary war, and we should have had the troops in sufficient numbers to deploy to not only succeed, but prevent the control the population in Iraq and its slide into civil war. We didn't, and don't. We didn't need the abundance of smart weapons, we needed boots on the ground. The transition to a peace time government would have been much shorter, and duty tours would have been limited to one or two. We could have patrolled the borders preventing incursions into Iraq by Iran and others, guarded the huge weapons caches found around the country, and prevented the re-emergence of the Taliban in Afghanistan. All of which would have lessened casualties and near fatal injuries.

In 2003 Charlie Rangel and Fritz Hollings launched bi-cameral effort to reinstate the draft, they cited the need for shared sacrifice, current heavy use of reserves and national guard. Although Rangel/Hollings were clear that the bill was more about embarrassing Republican `chickenhawks' than the draft. I was and still am upset that the sacrifice isn't shared.

I went to Quaker schools through college. It wasn't usual to canvass against the Viet Nam war students, teachers, administrators walking along Schermerhorn Street in downtown Brooklyn. I remember one teacher (not his name or his face) just him telling the class that he was teaching and going to grad school because he didn't want to go to Viet Nam. I remember that it seemed unfair that he could make that choice apparently without consequence. However, I can't blame someone for not wanting to die (but I'm embarrassed that I thought him shallow ). At college, I was taught American history by Larry Gara, a World War II conscientious objector, a member of the War Resisters League, someone who went to jail rather than serve, he even refused alternative service. I am still amazed by Larry's bravery. These men acted in similar ways and their acts resonate so differently.

P. S.
I disagree slightly I would argue it is the desegregated army that has offered better opportunities to African Americans than American society as a whole. At least it seems so based on personal observation and hearing both Colin Powell and Charlie Rangel speak of their service.

The recent adventures of the US Military are nothing I want to be a part of. If drafted for any such endeavors, I would dodge. By recent I mean every military adventure since WW2.

If, of course, our nation (or world) was truly threatened I would not hesitate to take up arms. Though, in such a scenario, the pure desperation of the situation would render arguments about a draft moot. Of course there would be a draft.

As for your question - progressives don't support a draft because progressives fully realize how irresponsible our leaders are at making decisions of war and peace.

Don't let me enlist? I'm all for protesting against the war. Our civilian leadership should be under close scrutiny when making decisions with so many ramifications.

But this attitude "don't let them enlist" really pisses me off. Who are you or anyone else to make that decision for me or any of the troopers I work with?

While we're on the subject, why don't we require a formal declaration of war from Congress before we prosecute one?  To me these issues are clearly connected, how can you legislate national conscription for an essentially undeclared war?  Historically our 'drafts' have been coupled with formal wars of national survival, which makes a lot of sense.